When was ‘peak petrol’? - DavidGlos
Seems to be a consensus of opinion that ‘peak diesel’ was the early 2000s. Common rail or PD injection systems that give relatively quiet running, easy cold starting, plenty of torque, tall gearing, decent fuel economy and none of the emissions related DPF and AdBlue problems that blight newer diesels.

…but when was/is peak petrol? The demise of new internal combustion engines over the next decade or two could suggest that we’ve not peaked yet, but a lot of future investment will be spent on EV, hydrogen etc.

I’m minded to say some point after fuel injection became standard, but before petrol particulate filters, an excess of sensors and electronic ‘stuff’ and before the recent oddities such as belt in oil cam belts.

Perhaps the answer is a similar time period to ‘peak diesel’?
When was ‘peak petrol’? - skidpan

We have had 2 cars with the VAG 1.4 TSi, the first was a 2013 140 PS in a Leon and then a 2017 150 PS in a Superb.

The Leon was Euro 5, the Superb Euro 6 and neither had a PPF.

Whilst I expected the Superb to not be a quick as the smaller and lighter Leon there was a huge difference in the way the cars drove between 1000 and 2000 rpm (the Superb was great above those revs). The Leon was off immediately with no turbo lag whatsoever. With the Superb you had to wait a short while before anything happened.

Have to say based on that a slight decline set in with Euro 6.

However, drove a brand new Golf 1.5 TSi in August that had the Mild Hybrid technology fitted. Not of fan of this at all before the drive but the Golf drove exactly like the Leon so it may have a use. Actually agreed to buy one but the sales lady with the help of her trainee cocked it all up and we had to walk away (not just us, the broker lost 8 sales over a 2 week period).

When was ‘peak petrol’? - bathtub tom

I had a Triumph Vitesse 2-litre that was recommended to use 5* (100 octane), as did the Rover SD TC (IIRC). It was never the same after 100 octane was withdrawn, despite numerous attempts to improve it.

Thankfully, I never had a car dependant on leaded after that was withdrawn.

I note that some aviation petrol still contains lead, in far higher proportions than was ever available to road users. I suppose they don't want them falling out of the skies.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - daveyjp

The trend of turbos on small engines hasn't been a great success. Far too many failures at low mileage across all brands.

Our Yaris 1.5 is a perfect example of "Keep it Simple Stupid".

105 bhp, no turbo, 60mpg.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - John F

The trend of turbos on small engines hasn't been a great success.

Nonsense. Do keep up! The introduction of small turbo engines has been a resounding success worldwide. Here is a piece of news dating back to 2019 about just one example - the 1.2 puretech - of which there are now millions all ove rthe globe. Other manufacturers are also churning them out.

PSA Group has started production of its PureTech turbocharged 3-cyl. gasoline engine in Tychy, Poland.

Group Chairman Carlos Tavares inaugurated the new assembly line for the 1.2L engine following an investment of €250 million ($285 million) in the facility. The move expands the production volume of the four-time International Engine of the Year, adding to existing manufacturing sites at Douvrin and Tremery in France and at Xiangyang in China.

Production will be increased still further when the engine is added this year to factory lines at Szentgotthard, Hungary; Kenitra, Morocco; and, from 2020, Hosur in India.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - Terry W

A little down the page is an analysis of vehicle registrations by fuel type.

Vehicle licensing statistics: 2022 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Diesel peaked in 2016 at 1.2m vehicles. Now down to ~100k.

Petrol peak predates diesel growth. 2.1m were registered in 2001. Now declined to 0.8m,

Other fuel types in 2022 were 0.7m. I suspect not all were fully electric but probably included some hybrid.

Sales in 2022 were still somewhat constrained by pandemic supply issues. However the overall message is clear.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - Adampr

I'd say peak petrol was a similar time - late 90s / early 00s. At that point people were happy with the concept that you bought diesel if you wanted fuel economy and petrol either for small engines or for going fast.

Something like the Jag XJR - a supercharged V8 - is my idea of what s petrol engine should be.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - skidpan

The trend of turbos on small engines hasn't been a great success. Far too many failures at low mileage across all brands.

Really.

Some brands have been trouble but the VAG belt driven TSi's (1.0, 1.4 & 1.5) have been a great success and very reliable. OK, the 1.5 did have the cold start hesitation but that was sorted, the 2 I test drove from cold in 2020 (I had one overnight so 100% certain it had not been already run) were perfect, one was in a Superb, the other in a Passat.

Did not like the 90 PS 1.2 when we test drove it (totally gutless) but the 1.4 TSi combined with an elctric motor as in the Superb iV is stunning.

The Golf mild hybrid 1.5 TSi I drove last year was very good.

Perhaps you should own one before making such comments.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - daveyjp

Not sure why I need to own a vehicle to back up a statement about turbo failures, I've driven plenty of VAG turbo petrols, but that doesn't mean they are all faultless.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - Engineer Andy

Not sure why I need to own a vehicle to back up a statement about turbo failures, I've driven plenty of VAG turbo petrols, but that doesn't mean they are all faultless.

Indeed. Don't forget the kangerooing as a 'characteristic' of the 1st gen VAG 1.5TSIs, which took 2 years to sort out (and likely expensively), or the problems with the early 1.2TSIs which are well-documented in the Good & Bad section of this site, never mind all the issues with the twin charger, the oil and timing chain issues with the 1.8TSI and many TSIs respectively (admittedly the latter was due to manufacturing cost-cutting, not a bad design).

Plus the many issues with small capacity turbo petrols for Ford, Honda and, yes, PSA, all of which are well documented as those above on this site.

I agree that most probably work fine, often performing better than rivals without turbos, but they appear to have more engine-related faults than (simpler) non-turbocharged petrol engines in cars on sale at the same time.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - RT
Seems to be a consensus of opinion that ‘peak diesel’ was the early 2000s. Common rail or PD injection systems that give relatively quiet running, easy cold starting, plenty of torque, tall gearing, decent fuel economy and none of the emissions related DPF and AdBlue problems that blight newer diesels. …but when was/is peak petrol? The demise of new internal combustion engines over the next decade or two could suggest that we’ve not peaked yet, but a lot of future investment will be spent on EV, hydrogen etc. I’m minded to say some point after fuel injection became standard, but before petrol particulate filters, an excess of sensors and electronic ‘stuff’ and before the recent oddities such as belt in oil cam belts. Perhaps the answer is a similar time period to ‘peak diesel’?

From my perspective, peak petrol was just before catalytic converters became mandatory, so about '91-92 - fuel injection, 5-speed gearboxes and unleaded fuel had become the new normal

When was ‘peak petrol’? - Orb>>

For me. Peak petrol and satisfaction were.

1. Honda V6 2.7l vitesse.

2 Honda V6 sterling auto followed by a

3. Rover Honda engined 1.6 416 auto and a honda engine 216GT. after that Rover went to the dogs. Never wanted any of the Jags of that era. Had several of the jags for use as freebies when I asked, but put my own money in one, no thank you sir.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - RT

For me. Peak petrol and satisfaction were.

1. Honda V6 2.7l vitesse.

2 Honda V6 sterling auto followed by a

3. Rover Honda engined 1.6 416 auto and a honda engine 216GT. after that Rover went to the dogs. Never wanted any of the Jags of that era. Had several of the jags for use as freebies when I asked, but put my own money in one, no thank you sir.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks that any cars from the Rover/Honda alliance period represent the peak of anything.

The original 2.5 V6 Honda/Rover was panned by the press for being gutless, no real torque anywhere in the rpm range - a quick capacity increase and retune was needed to make it acceptable.

The Sterling (Rover 800) sold in the USA was an unmitigated disaster

When was ‘peak petrol’? - gordonbennet

For me, and i know of others, peak cars of normal petrol/Diesel engines was 90's and depending on make (how conservative the maker) up to late noughties for some.

Hybrids have thrown a large spanner in the works because Toyota have pretty well perfected the concept with not just the best product but one which proves itself reliable over hundreds of thousands of miles, which is why taxi drivers are paying ludicrous amounts to buy good used examples....so maybe the current generation ofToyota hybrid is peak fuel?

I'll be keeping an open mind, Toyota aren't betting the house on pure EVs which some other makers have, wonder what they are working on, maybe peak fuel burning still hasn't reached peak.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - Orb>>

For me. Peak petrol and satisfaction were.

1. Honda V6 2.7l vitesse.

2 Honda V6 sterling auto followed by a

3. Rover Honda engined 1.6 416 auto and a honda engine 216GT. after that Rover went to the dogs. Never wanted any of the Jags of that era. Had several of the jags for use as freebies when I asked, but put my own money in one, no thank you sir.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks that any cars from the Rover/Honda alliance period represent the peak of anything.

The original 2.5 V6 Honda/Rover was panned by the press for being gutless, no real torque anywhere in the rpm range - a quick capacity increase and retune was needed to make it acceptable.

The Sterling (Rover 800) sold in the USA was an unmitigated disaster

BUT, and a fairly big BUT, I was happy with them and that's what counts for me. The Rover 75 i bought in 2003 was excellent but a bit retro.

Different days, different perspectives, and don't forget I paid nowhere near retail for any of them, Expectations were tempered but again I was happy.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - movilogo

I consider peak of petrol as our present time :-)

Many cars now are turbo petrol with lot of power and torque figures matching those of diesels.

Petrol hybrids (which are still ICE) have good fuel economy too, consider their high powered engines (and motor).

If you ignore the brouhaha with EVs, petrol cars are still doing brisk business. They have not yet been demonized like diesels.

Price of petrol cars may even go up as EV deadline approaches.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - John F

I'm surprised that anyone thinks that any cars from the Rover/Honda alliance period represent the peak of anything.

Peak Triumph? My mother had a Triumph Acclaim (basically a Hond Ballade) which was probably the best built and most reliable Triumph car ever made (apart from my Canley built TR7 DHC, of course;-)

When was ‘peak petrol’? - Andrew-T

<< From my perspective, peak petrol was just before catalytic converters became mandatory, so about '91-92 - fuel injection, 5-speed gearboxes and unleaded fuel had become the new normal >>

I would tend to agree. Since the late 80s I have owned a variety of Pug 205 models, from entry-level 1.1 to the 1.6 GTi or CTi and a 1.7 Dturbo. While the GTi's were probably the most entertaining to drive, with injection engines, they were noticeably more thirsty, never reaching 40mpg, and the arrival of cat-converters did them no favours.

The Dturbo was almost as good if one kept the injectors clean, and it easily managed low 50s mpg. But a year ago I went back to a 1991 1.4 petrol car with the wide-ratio gearbox and no cat (manual choke too) and am pleasantly surprised to get 54-55 mpg. It must have been expertly set up .... :-)

When was ‘peak petrol’? - SLO76
As much as I respect the efficiency of some small capacity turbocharged petrol motors, particularly VW’s belt driven TSi’s, I hark back to the simpler times of the 90’s when the company car fleets demanded simplicity and ease of repair. Engines that stock in my mind as excellent include…

Vauxhall 2.0 injection 8v - these were very robust, decent on fuel and went very well in anything short of a Carlton.

Vauxhall 2.0 16v red top - Rev happy, robust and went like stink in the Astra.

Honda VTEC - In particular the high output 1.6 158bhp from the 90’s Civic VTi and the 197bhp 2.0 from the Type R. Mechanically bulletproof, docile as a pet around town yet sounded like a McLaren when screaming its head off. Brilliant engines.

PD TDi VAG 1.9’s - Fantastic things.

Izusu 1.7 TD - Could do 500k easily.

PSA 2.0 HDi 8v - As above, but much smoother.

Almost any Mitsubishi motor from the 90’s - I flogged loads of them and their related Proton cousins. Fantastically reliable things, they never went wrong. The 2.0 V6 in the Galant from 1992 on was a particularly nice thing, if a bit thirsty.

VW’s 8v 1.8 injection from the Golf GTi - These were quick and easily capable of big six figure mileages. Simple, well made and very long lived, yet still fun.

When DPF strangled diesels took over the mainstream the soul was sucked out of everything. Too complex, too unreliable and too costly to fix. But it was the adoption of electric power steering over hydraulic that killed off the pleasure of motoring for me. Everything feels numb and bland today, a quick drive in a late 90’s Ford Focus, Puma or Mondeo or a 90’s Peugeot 306 will quickly remind you of what we’ve lost.

Edited by SLO76 on 26/01/2024 at 10:24

When was ‘peak petrol’? - Andrew-T

<< Everything feels numb and bland today, a quick drive in a late 90’s Ford Focus, Puma or Mondeo or a 90’s Peugeot 306 will quickly remind you of what we’ve lost. >>

When I swapped my 306 HDi for the 207 HDi back in 2008, one of the first things that struck me was the comparatively numb PAS, which was electric. On the credit side I am sure it saved fuel because the engine only powered the steering when the driver turned the wheel, instead of all the time. Swings and r'abouts, and one does (has to) get used to it.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - badbusdriver

The trend of turbos on small engines hasn't been a great success. Far too many failures at low mileage across all brands.

It is all too easy to get fixated by the two factors, small capacity and turbo, and assume this are the reason for the failures, when they aren't.

The fact they were small capacity and turbocharged is incidental, the reason for the failures are poor design/design flaws/design mistakes, invariably stemming from cutting costs, materials and corners.

Let's not forget, the Japanese have been making reliable small capacity turbos since the 80's at least, and not just for the JDM. While most petrolheads will have heard of the Daihatsu Charade GTti and its 100bhp per litre, that was one of three different 1.0 turbo 3 cyl Charade's being sold in the UK, the others being the diesel and a lower powered petrol. But the previous shape Charade was also sold in the UK as a 1.0 turbo petrol and diesel as early as 1983.

Kei cars in the JDM have also been using turbo's reliably since at least the 90's on engines of no more than 660cc.

Nonsense. Do keep up! The introduction of small turbo engines has been a resounding success worldwide. Here is a piece of news dating back to 2019 about just one example - the 1.2 puretech - of which there are now millions all ove rthe globe. Other manufacturers are also churning them out.

You too John!, see above ;-)

Peak petrol for me though? I'd have to turn to Saab. As an 18 year old with less then a years driving under my belt, getting behind the wheel of Saab turbo's with as much as 195bhp (when I started) was a bit of an eye opener. In term of style, can't really beat the classic shape 900, ideally an early "flat front" T16S. But from behind the wheel, the 9000 with the 2.3 turbo, ideally an "aero" (replaced the Carlsson) which also had the benefit of the finest car seats I've ever sat in.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - mcb100
‘ But from behind the wheel, the 9000 with the 2.3 turbo, ideally an "aero" (replaced the Carlsson) which also had the benefit of the finest car seats I've ever sat in.’

Sorry, going off topic, but I had the pleasure of sitting next to Erik Carlsson in a 900 Turbo around Oulton Park in the mid-80’s. A big bear of a man, he made a very quick lap look absolutely effortless, before demonstrating SAAB’s negative scrub suspension geometry by driving over a tyre knife at speed with both hands raised through the open sunroof….
When was ‘peak petrol’? - badbusdriver
‘ But from behind the wheel, the 9000 with the 2.3 turbo, ideally an "aero" (replaced the Carlsson) which also had the benefit of the finest car seats I've ever sat in.’ Sorry, going off topic, but I had the pleasure of sitting next to Erik Carlsson in a 900 Turbo around Oulton Park in the mid-80’s. A big bear of a man, he made a very quick lap look absolutely effortless, before demonstrating SAAB’s negative scrub suspension geometry by driving over a tyre knife at speed with both hands raised through the open sunroof….

The boss of the Saab dealer I worked for knew Erik Carlsson personally and he actually opened the dealership!

When was ‘peak petrol’? - John F
.... it was the adoption of electric power steering over hydraulic that killed off the pleasure of motoring...... a quick drive in a late 90’s Ford Focus,....Mondeo or a 90’s Peugeot 306

or an early 80's TR7 with no power assistance at all

will quickly remind you of what we’ve lost.

When was ‘peak petrol’? - edlithgow

For me, the basic SU carburettor. This gave mixture adjustment via needle position and by the profile of the needle fitted, plus on-the-fly adjustment via the choke, which adjusted the position of the nozzle in relation to the needle.

I could also at least kid myself I understood it; which hasn't been true of anything else, certainly not the most recent AISIN.

If I had such a thing now I'd be interested in matching it to an AF ratio meter. and maybe steam injection.

The 125-150 cc motorcycles common in Taiwan have basically similar Mikuni carbs (but without the SU's characteristic oil-damping pot) and if the cops hadn't got the Skywing I had thought about maybe fitting 1 per cylinder (3). This would be completely illegal but a private inspection outfit might not care;

My SU was on a BL B series 1800, an engine I quite liked. Unfortunately this wasnt in an MGB tourer. or even a Sherpa Motorhome or BT workshop trucklet, but in an extremely rotten Marina estate.1974 I THINK

If the army hadnt let me use their oxy-acetylene gear I would never have got it through an MOT., but at least dropping the sump was much easier than on anything else I've had.

When the gas ran out, so did the MOTs

Edited by edlithgow on 27/01/2024 at 08:40

When was ‘peak petrol’? - Andrew-T

The other thing about the SU was that it wasn't bothered about pressure changes due to altitude. When driving my 1100 around the western US we drove from Death Valley (below sea level) over into Yosemite at about 10,000 feet. Many American cars (apparently) liked to have their carbs retuned to do that sort of thing.