Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
I posted yesterday asking for advice on an older Ford Focus estate. I got some really good advice so thanks for that.

Among the advice was to stick to normally aspirated petrol engines at this age and mileage. Other advice suggested extending my search as wide as possible. This led me down a rabbit hole of looking beyond just estate cars, and into MPV territory.

I'm looking for opinions on the two classes of car. My needs from the car are as follows;

Our young son has leukaemia, I had to give up work until his treatment ends. Just before his diagnosis we bought a pile of bricks in the countryside which I am now renovating full-time alongside caring for my son.

My wife has a reliable car for work but I still need a car for the school run, hospital trips etc, but also to haul materials to and from the house. It would only be doing around 3k miles a year though. As we currently live on one income, cheap to own is also important. My current car is hideously expensive to own so it has to go, I expect to get around £3k for it which sets my budget to change vehicle.

The larger items I can carry, the better. Think bathtubs, lengths of timber, bags of cement, rolls of carpet. Saves us a ton of money on delivery costs and it's something I do on a weekly basis.

MPV or estate? For example, Ford C-max vs Focus estate, is one better for load carrying than the other? Are Zafira's any good? Are bigger MPV's like the S-Max and Alhambra uneconomical as petrols? Are Peugeot or Citroen estates/MPV's worth a punt or are they danger territory in the £3k range?

It was a minefield of a search when I had just one or two models to look at, now I'm extending it to dozens of potential vehicles I'm a bit overwhelmed.

All opinions welcome and appreciated!


Edited by Ten_shunts on 29/02/2024 at 10:04

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ian_SW

At this budget, condition is probably more important than anything else.

I'd suspect budget secondhand MPVs to be more in demand than estate cars as they can have the seats taken out and be used as a cheap alternative to a van. This would mean for the same money you get a less good car if buying an MPV, but may not always be the case.

Old estate cars tend to be quite in demand too though, so there may not be much difference between them and MPVs.

You'd probably get the best car for your money in an old non-premium saloon car - not so many around these days, but the Focus saloon, Toyota Avensis or VW Jetta may offer a better condition car for the money compared to the hatchback.

Saloons aren't particularly good at carrying stuff though, the big hatchbacks also aren't particularly popular at the budget end - Mondeo, Insignia, Octavia etc. as they are too expensive to insure for younger drivers and all have a huge boot if you take the parcel shelf out.

Saloons aren't impossible though if they have folding seats or a ski hatch and don't car about the interior - a mate ran his business (sparky) from an ancient Audi A4 saloon for a while and carried a surprising amount of building materials in it. The main benefit of having the saloon car was he could leave it parked on the street and nobody suspected it had £5k worth of tools in the boot - something you can't risk in a van, even in decent areas.

Edited by Ian_SW on 29/02/2024 at 10:52

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Big John

the big hatchbacks also aren't particularly popular at the budget end - Mondeo, Insignia, Octavia etc. as they are too expensive to insure for younger drivers and all have a huge boot if you take the parcel shelf out.

The Octavia hatch or estate have huge boots even if you leave the parcel shelf in! We've had a few in the family, one we kept for 19 years.

PS What is your current car and why is it so expensive?

Edited by Big John on 29/02/2024 at 10:55

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - corax

The Octavia hatch or estate have huge boots even if you leave the parcel shelf in! We've had a few in the family, one we kept for 19 years.

Not sure if it comes as standard, but a lot of the VAG group have that folding front passenger seat which is brilliant for carrying long lengths of timber e.t.c

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
Thanks. I had a Skoda Fabia estate for a couple of years which was a fab little car, but unfortunately too little for my needs now. I will look at Octavia's though.

I own an 07 Jeep Grand Cherokee. 3.0 Merc engined diesel, an amazing hauler and tower but at £700 a year road tax and averaging 19mpg, it's just too expensive to justify for such low mileage without an income.

I was a lorry driver before I stopped working, used to top the leader boards for eco driving regularly. I could squeeze every decimal point of mpg out of a 40t lorry, but I can't get the Jeep beyond 19mpg. I've cleaned the EGR, fitted a new turbo, changed all the filters, tried additives and premium fuel but that seems to be my maximum.
Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - gordonbennet
. I own an 07 Jeep Grand Cherokee. 3.0 Merc engined diesel, an amazing hauler and tower but at £700 a year road tax and averaging 19mpg, it's just too expensive to justify for such low mileage without an income. I was a lorry driver before I stopped working, used to top the leader boards for eco driving regularly. I could squeeze every decimal point of mpg out of a 40t lorry, but I can't get the Jeep beyond 19mpg. I've cleaned the EGR, fitted a new turbo, changed all the filters, tried additives and premium fuel but that seems to be my maximum.

You've done almost everything by the sounds of it, have you gone through the brakes to ensure no dragging there, even if that helped i doubt you'll better 22 running about, no doubt the Jeep is a proper auto to boot.

Similar story with my Landcruiser, another automatic 2 ton brick, 3 litre 4 pot engine, runs around 24/25mpg pottering about and on not easy work commute, its saving grace is its 55 plate so (so far, give them time) doesn't attract top rate VED.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - badbusdriver

With such a small budget, your choice is going to be dictated by what is available within what you consider a reasonable travelling distance. You mention renovating a house in the countryside, so maybe not ideal.

But again, with such a small budget, you can't really be too fussy. More about buying the best car you can which fits your needs rather than the one you want. The Focus was mentioned in your last thread with good reason, as with a n/a petrol engine they are reliable. But the other thing is that they are popular, so more potential buys to choose from. This is especially important with estates, because they are vastly outnumbered by their hatchback equivalents. For that reason you also want to be looking at the Vauxhall Astra estate as there will be similar numbers of them as the Focus. But once you have taken diesel, auto and small capacity turbo engines (of an age your budget would get), pretty much anything goes. You really want to be buying on condition and MOT history rather than anything else and if that means ending up with a car slower than you want, so be it.

As to MPV's vs estates, the main difference is that an estate will generally have a longer load bay than an MPV equivalent, though the MPV will almost certainly have a greater volume of space.

With such a small annual mileage, a reliable but thirsty car is going to be a much better bet than a more efficient but less reliable one. So personally, I wouldn't get too hung up on mpg. Having said that, because of the mpg factor, larger MPV's like these are very uncommon with a petrol engine.

Surely another option is to get a hatchback with a tow bar (or have one fitted) and get a trailer?.

Finally, if you say where you are, some of us can have a look on Autotrader, Ebay or wherever for potential buys in the area/

Edited by badbusdriver on 29/02/2024 at 10:58

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - gordonbennet

I'd just punch in 'petrol estates cars' or 'petrol MPV' into ebay and click the nearest first button and see what crops up.

Something will crop up which ticks the boxes then its a case of examining it closely as well as its MOT history, we'll help out as much as we can with advice when you see a potential.

BBD makes vaid points about popular models, general common parts are cheap and plentiful and being able to pick up used larger parts from a car being broken up can save lots of money.

Don't ignore slightly larger models like Avensis 1.8 estate, these are tough and reliable and hardly heavier on fuel than a 1.6 Focus, my Romanian mate has a battered 05 plate saloon Avensis which he refuses to clean or spend a single penny on and it in return refuses to go wrong.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
Thanks. I'm taking it all on board.

I live in the sticks but roughly equal distance from Doncaster, Selby and Goole. I would greatly appreciate any links. I've obviously been searching myself. Autotrader, Car Gurus, EBay, Parker's and here. After a while the sheer number of things I've looked at has started to muddy the waters.

Trailer is a no go, we live in a safe area but we're easy targets for the kind of people who prowl the countryside looking for an easy opportunity, and trailers are top of their list. Seem to be the most common things to go missing round here so I'd worry about secure storage on my very open driveway.
Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Big John

www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401275947702?s...a

Can't check MOT history as no reg no.

With anything at this age / price point condition / history is all. Also rust is still a car killer - look at clues re MOT history and get underneath to look see!! I always HPI check myself.

Edited by Big John on 29/02/2024 at 12:12

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - gordonbennet

www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401275947702?s...r

That looks a decent example Big John, the last of that model were excellent cars, in some ways better when older than the new 2009 on model which they saddled with an electric park brake...oddly enough there's a nice looking 2.0 litre Diesel version of the newer model for sale cheaply at Leicester/Coventry with EPB issues, trouble is that could be a £200 or £1000 fix.

Seems to be more MOT mentions of subframe and suspension rust on the 2009 on model than on examples of the above model you found.

Edited by gordonbennet on 29/02/2024 at 13:01

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Heidfirst

Avensis T25 (2003-2008) is a good shout but check the rear suspension & mounts

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
Yep I ruled out the newer Avensis for the same reasons, electronic handbrake issues and most I've seen have a lot of sub frame rust advisories.

Interesting that the older ones don't suffer from rust as badly.
Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - corax
Yep I ruled out the newer Avensis for the same reasons, electronic handbrake issues and most I've seen have a lot of sub frame rust advisories. Interesting that the older ones don't suffer from rust as badly.

As well as the above, check sills. I sc***ped my 03 due to terminal rust. They are also very prone to water leaks into the boot area, usually from the light clusters.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
Yep I've had my eye on this one. I've ruled out newer Toyotas with the electronic handbrake but I'm considering this age.

My only concern is why they have hidden the reg. It's only had one owner so shouldn't have anything dodgy to try and hide unless it was a taxi and is showing 100k miles for the 3rd time in its life.

Worth a look though as it's not too far away.

Cheers
Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - gordonbennet
Yep I've had my eye on this one. I've ruled out newer Toyotas with the electronic handbrake but I'm considering this age. My only concern is why they have hidden the reg. It's only had one owner so shouldn't have anything dodgy to try and hide unless it was a taxi and is showing 100k miles for the 3rd time in its life. Worth a look though as it's not too far away. Cheers

You could give them a ring and see if they'll give you the reg number over the phone so you can check the MOT history and/or HPI it.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - madf

Honda Civic with magic seats: reliability, comfort and lots of space if needed . Son has had one for 8 years trouble free.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
Magic seats? Does that mean removable?
Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - badbusdriver
Magic seats? Does that mean removable?

On most cars the fuel tank is under the rear seats but on the Civic (and Jazz) it was put underneath the front seats. This means you can flip the rear seat bases up like cinema seats and gives a large and deep extra storage area separate from the boot. It also means that when folding the rear seats, they go nice and low!.

Not sure when the magic seats first appeared, 8th gen (2006-2011) certainly had them but not sure about 7th gen?. The problem from your point of view though is that there was no Civic estate available in the UK between 2000 and 2013 and I doubt your budget would get you into a 2013 on.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - badbusdriver

I have not checked MOT histories, but here are a few cars on Autotrader I've seen that I'd want a closer look at if in your position,

202402287043945

202402076325653

202312204949287

202402016132013

202312154843552

202402266941447

202402277009463

202401095390996

202402266938991

202312265063047

202310132970079

202402216815759

202402156598613

202402176678696

202401055272629

202401235816684

I've included a couple of hatchbacks here, Mondeo and Vectra. Because they are bigger cars, them not being an estate shouldn't prove too much of a problem (having said that, the Vectra estate I've linked is absolutely massive inside!). I've also linked a Volvo V50 which isn't that big inside, but it does have roof bars you can make use of and they are the same under the skin as a Focus of that era. I know the old Volvo V70 linked looks a bit grotty (and leggy), but these are very strong cars.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
This is awesome, thank you for taking the time.

I'll dig into these this evening.

Cheers!
Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Adampr
Yep I've had my eye on this one. I've ruled out newer Toyotas with the electronic handbrake but I'm considering this age. My only concern is why they have hidden the reg. It's only had one owner so shouldn't have anything dodgy to try and hide unless it was a taxi and is showing 100k miles for the 3rd time in its life. Worth a look though as it's not too far away. Cheers

Hiding the registration is usually a manifestation of paranoia around cloning rather than an attempt to mislead.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
I've found a few 08-11 plated Mazda 6 estates within my budget at a reasonable distance. All of them are 2.0l petrols, which have surprisingly low road tax and good MPG figures. Any things I need to know about Mazda?
Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - badbusdriver
I've found a few 08-11 plated Mazda 6 estates within my budget at a reasonable distance. All of them are 2.0l petrols, which have surprisingly low road tax and good MPG figures. Any things I need to know about Mazda?

In n/a petrol form, probably one of the most reliable cars you will find. But anecdotal evidence from forum members suggest Mazda's are not as well protected against rust compared to most makes, so check the MOT history carefully and get underneath for an actual look.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
In n/a petrol form, probably one of the most reliable cars you will find. But anecdotal evidence from forum members suggest Mazda's are not as well protected against rust compared to most makes, so check the MOT history carefully and get underneath for an actual look.

Thank you. It certainly looks like a solid contender if I can get a good example.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Engineer Andy
I've found a few 08-11 plated Mazda 6 estates within my budget at a reasonable distance. All of them are 2.0l petrols, which have surprisingly low road tax and good MPG figures. Any things I need to know about Mazda?

As a long-time (18yo) Mazda 3 (1.6L petrol) owner:

Avoid the diesels because you cannot guarantee their reliability;

If you choose to have your (petrol) Mazda maintained at a main dealership, do a decent amount of research first to see what those locally to you are like. In my experience on the Mazda3 owners' forum, (and IMHO) the post-sales quality of main dealers varies like Ford and Vauxhall. Some can be great, others poor.

IMHO, Mazda Head Office in the UK doesn't have a great reputation for being the friend to customers, but if you own a (non-rotary) petrol car that's been well-maintained and you use a good maintenance outfit, you shouldn't need to deal with them.

Hopefully either you local(s) have good reputations for the maintenance side of things and/or you have enough decent (trustworthy and highly competent) local indie outfits that can look after such a car easily and well.

The Mazda petrol engines of the era when they were tied up with Ford should be easy enough to work on, many that shared components with Fords and Volvos at that time.

Older Mazdas did suffer from corrosion problems, but normally this is relatively easy to spot, and mostly confined to cars from the 1990s and early-mid 2000s. Hopefully a 2nd gen Mazda6 should be no worse for its age than most rivals. My 18yo Mazda3 really only has rust on the wheel arches, seemingly fine underneath.

Useful if you can get the car with a spare wheel and tyre, assuming the one(s) you look at have the space in the underboot area to take it. Some high spec models *may* (others can confirm or not) use that for the audio system guff. Hopefully in the earlier cars, spare wheel/tyres (may be a spacesaver) may be a lot cheaper than those that 'fit' the 3rd gen Mazda3 etc, which cost £400.

The HJ review section has a 'God & Bad' subsection which highlights issues, though from looking at it, most are diesel-related

www.honestjohn.co.uk/mazda/6/2008/good

Make sure any car you look at has seen regular fresh quality oil on schedule (preferably a FSH, even more so a good main dealer or revered indie), especially the chain-cam engines. Other than one faulty sensor that precipitated the exhaust manifold being also replaced, my car has had zero engine problems in its lifetime.

Buy the lowest spec you need - with any old-er car, pointless buying a high spec cars where you don't use many of the gadgets. I personally like mine with its climate controlled A/C - worth the extra money. I suspect that most Mazda6s will come with it as standard.

Like most second hand cars, best to buy something that's been well cared for, even if that costs a little more. I would be impressed if it was a one-owner car and that owner had an entire fully documented maintenance history and a very good MOT history.

Low overall mileage can be an issue only if it was mostly short trips from cold - battery issues, brake discs warping and pads seizing, but is fixable and a good owner should take care of that. Mine's done only 75,000 miles, but mostly trips over 12 miles, so the car warms up.

They should be capable of decent mileages if well cared for, so don't overlook higher mileage examples if well maintained. Maybe if the seats / trim are very worn or a grubby interior, as that might indicate a hard life.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
I've found a few 08-11 plated Mazda 6 estates within my budget at a reasonable distance. All of them are 2.0l petrols, which have surprisingly low road tax and good MPG figures. Any things I need to know about Mazda?



Thank you for this detailed response! There's a few available within my budget so I have options to compare.
Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts

Thanks again for everyone's input, it's been very helpful.

After trawling the used market for the past couple of weeks I realised I was having a hard time keeping track of all the information. I decided to go full nerd and put a spreadsheet together comparing all the different options.

It looks like the absolute best options based on my criteria and budget are as follows;

1. Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 Vti - Hands down winner on load space and running costs

2. Kia Ceed SW 1.6 - Best overall running costs with decent load space

3. Mazda 6 Estate 2.0 - Excellent load space, decent economy

I've already been sold on the Mazda and Kia, but the Peugeot is an absolute wildcard. Pracitcally van-like load space when the rear seats are taken out, randomly has 7 seats which would make life a lot easier when I take my son and newphews swimming. It's got great economy figures and used examples tend to be lower priced than the others.

Seems too good to be true. Is it? Are they reliable enough? Not much experience with French cars other than the not-so-positive stereotypes.

Edited by Ten_shunts on 02/03/2024 at 08:40

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - badbusdriver

I've already been sold on the Mazda and Kia, but the Peugeot is an absolute wildcard. Pracitcally van-like load space when the rear seats are taken out, randomly has 7 seats which would make life a lot easier when I take my son and newphews swimming. It's got great economy figures and used examples tend to be lower priced than the others.

Seems too good to be true. Is it? Are they reliable enough? Not much experience with French cars other than the not-so-positive stereotypes.

Sadly, the engine has a poor reputation, the result of a collaborative effort between PSA and BMW.

Look up "Prince engine problems". That is the reason I didn't include any cars with that engine in the links I posted!

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Ten_shunts
Thank you. It hasn't been mentioned by anyone else either and never came up on my initial google searches. I'll take it off the list.

The Mazda seems to be the winner, but only if I can get a clean one.

The Kia seems to be second please but a little less capable on the load space front.

Toyota Avensis and 1.6 Ford Focus estate are also contenders but don't match the previous too on economics/price/load space but the Ford being the most common give it an edge on future parts/repairs.

I've ruled out Octavia's, Mondeo's and various MPV's as I haven't seen any in my budget that can get close enough to the others on running costs vs load space.

I'm taking previous advice though and not getting too hung up on one particular model and will be making my decision based on what's actually out there, what condition it's in and how much it'll cost me up front. A solid and extremely cheap Toyota/Focus/Mondeo/Octavia might offset some of the other drawbacks enough to make sense.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - badbusdriver

The Mazda seems to be the winner, but only if I can get a clean one.

Given what you plan to use the car for, I wouldn't be overly concerned about how clean the car is (and that includes the odd battle scar), actual mechanical condition is much more important.

I said earlier but will repeat, don't get hung up on mpg. If you are only doing 3k per year, fuel costs will be a small part of overall running costs and nowhere near the potential difference between a reliable car and an unreliable car. So, within reason, ignore the mpg.

As to load space, again, it is all too easy to get hung up on actual capacity, but that doesn't tell the whole story. If you are planning to move as much bags of flower as possible, then yes, by all means, go by the capacity!. But for the kind of stuff you are going to be moving, it isn't the be all and end all. Plus there is also the roof factor. Many estates will already have roof rails, so not too difficult or expensive to fit bars to those rails in order to throw longer stuff up there!.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Big John
I've ruled out Octavia's, Mondeo's and various MPV's as I haven't seen any in my budget that can get close enough to the others on running costs vs load space.

www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402236857377?s...a

Huuuge boot. Good MOT history and for that engine it's just run in? The Octavia is usually good re rust resistance but still check subframes eg under engine etc and behind wheel arch liners especially where they join sills - can be a leaf/mud/crud collection point(true of many cars !). Oh and manual handbrake. Economy, whilst not up with the diesels or tsi's will be mid 30's and if you take it steady 40mpg on a run.

At this budget don't get hung up on an individual model - you need to go and have a thorough look at a few and investigate histories. Condition is all and the cars will be middle aged so thing like rust could quickly become terminal, but you could find a real peach that'll last you for years.

Edited by Big John on 02/03/2024 at 16:43

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Heidfirst
Thank you. It hasn't been mentioned by anyone else either and never came up on my initial google searches. I'll take it off the list. The Mazda seems to be the winner, but only if I can get a clean one. The Kia seems to be second please but a little less capable on the load space front. Toyota Avensis and 1.6 Ford Focus estate are also contenders but don't match the previous too on economics/price/load space but the Ford being the most common give it an edge on future parts/repairs.

I would be surprised that a T25 Avensis 1.8 would not stack up on cost/space grounds but availabilty may be an issue - people in the know hang onto them! Parts are not a problem.

Also worth considering can be the difference between theoretical load space & actually genuinely useful (due to shape etc) load space.

1 of the things that ruled out the Mazda 6 estate for me was that the back seats don't fold down fully flat (the Avensis does). Maybe not a consideration for you though?

Edited by Heidfirst on 02/03/2024 at 18:37

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - Random

In your finite calculations have you checked insurance cost of a Mazda v Ford? Ditto parts prices.

Sub £3k Petrol Estate vs Petrol MPV - John F
Are Peugeot or Citroen estates/MPV's worth a punt or are they danger territory in the £3k range?

I think no more so than Fords or Vauxhalls, let alone stuff from the far east. Indeed, I think older Peugeots are much less likely to be rusty. Despite owning a faithful old workhorse Focus Estate for many years, for sub £3K I would now go for a Peugeot 307SW. Plenty around at this price. 407SWs are bigger, but fewer available for £3K. I have always been impressed by Peugeot's rust resistance - the brace of ancient 309s I bought for my sons c20yrs ago had virtually no rust anywhere - in stark contrast to old Ford's bodywork. I would definitely go for an estate as you don't want to knacker your back hoiking slabs and sacks over a high lip.